Dr. Elroy Podcast
[1:06] The best way to have a healthy family is by living a Family Wellness lifestyle so if you're looking for efficient effective.
Then I strongly recommend you make yourself comfortable because we have an amazing show for you today dr. elroy's Johnny is the founder of regeneron medical a boutique functional medicine practice in Los Angeles California.
And a certified bredesen recode practitioner
well welcome families to the interview portion of today's podcast I have with me today doctor Elroy Voyage Johnny welcome to the podcast Doc it's so great to have you.
It's great to be here Kyle appreciate it.
[2:06] I just want to thank you so much for coming on the platform here doc I had the honor and the privilege of meeting you back in Denver just last week
people out there that are just struggling.
Hundred lbs and chronic disease that are just looking for answers were a lot of functional medicine and even the owl pathak model has come up short for them so
I want to thank you for your time this afternoon as we always start with with every guest that we have on the podcast dear.
[2:43] Can you briefly tell us what family looks like for you.
Thank you very much for thing at home that I think you carry with you wherever you go.
The healthy baby healthy mother there that's
I have not had the honor of visiting Michigan but my brother-in-law who I'm very close with is a freshman at the University of Michigan just started.
[3:34] He just came home yesterday for fall break so I'm catching up on all his wonderful times and Mission
brilliant that's great to hear I'm we're always I mean right now with the fall definitely go Blue cheering for Michigan there and I hear great things about the university with their medical programs and all of their academic achievements there as well so
with your functional medicine clinic out and.
California there on the clinical side applying these things that you're doing with the research and actually changing people's lives to elevate their health and
on this lifestyle specifically i wanted to go into a talking the in test no permian below the and our current understanding of wiki got because i think there's.
Again you've talked about this on your YouTube channel with a wrist of what is Johnny PhD.
Oftentimes there can be confusion or miscommunication about mechanisms or even new research comes out and we have new understandings so.
[4:52] No for some during degree or another that we have these multiple barriers within our body right so we have six primary barriers if you will
one being the skin are first barrier with the environments are lungs you can have a leaky lung context our lungs have a barrier,
obviously the intestinal barrier which I think is most widely known but then we also have a good vascular barrier a blood-brain barrier which is had a lot of attention around it recently
and also onion barrier so if we could dive into a discussion of the inch has no barrier and i know it may a branch off from there i think they'll give people a great start.
In terms of California contacts for our discussion.
And listening to your talk back in Denver what I heard you say if pregnant if I'm wrong but it's almost as if our intestinal epithelium or those cells that kind of makeup are gut lining.
[5:55] There's some component of our body sometimes wants to have that be
i was a most the time it wants to be a good nice tight junction that's closed off does that sound correct.
Or how does that concept totally correct and so what we were talking about in the lecture was.
[6:29] Kind of completely reverse our understanding of and has some pretty billy
we used to think 20 or 25 years ago and I even mentioned in the lecture that it when I went to med school what we were taught was
that the interface between the inside of our God and our blood.
And then that is basically you know absolute and that the spaces in between those cells which are the paracellular spaces and where tight junctions live.
And dr. Fasano's work was going on actually the same time that I was learning that in medical school.
And he basically flipped the upside down he said you know this is incorrect.
We have a mechanism to open these.
[7:28] Spaces in between these barriers elsener got end.
Or open and close these tight junctions to be able to sample,
what's inside of our gut and that's in the spirit of maintaining something called.
Oral tolerance or peripheral tolerance.
[7:53] Which is our ability to say this is Friend or Foe basically.
[7:59] Self or non-self exactly did you ever watch the movie The Matrix dock.
Turn off above the door where Neal walks in when he visits the shaman I forget what her name is.
And so I just think of that when I reflect upon this concept of autoimmune ology or having your immune system recognize what is Friend or Foe essentially that Thursday.
Absolutely can you expand upon this idea of oral tolerance and maybe tie this into the alcat test because that's an understanding that I'm trying to format.
[8:37] Understand as well and have that be shape because I think a lot of people have heard of the alcat test or they've had the testing done and they may feel better for an initial period of time.
What's the long-term plan.
[9:02] You know beginning at about 3 months of age or our body starts forming immune cells within our bone marrow.
And we start creating something called Central tolerance which is this really vital part of being able to exist.
Which is training the cells of our mean system to understand what is our tissue and what is not our tissue.
And that of course occurs in that i am missing you know goes a couple of years two or three years right essential tolerance.
The idea that our tissue is our own and make sure that our immune system never attacks.
[9:38] Expanded concept is something called peripheral tolerance which is.
Where you're still trying to maintain the idea of cell vs non self white be flexible in.
Peripheral tolerance occurs primarily in the gut.
[9:59] And this is a dynamic and ever-flowing process as we are exposed to different things in our environment and end that
that's where tight junctions become incredibly important functions to work appropriately you need to be able to turn them on and open them in unregulated fashions in the correct situation.
In order to expose your immune system which is centered within the guy to the right amount of antigens at the right time so it knows which which one's the fight and which ones did not
now we don't want to suddenly start developing reactions for example is something very common like gluten Nord sub peptides,
you know this is not what I mean system is designed to do it's doing this by accident and it's happening it's happening through dysregulation of Grifols.
[11:09] Those of us in the book Valley School of thought.
And along time ago we now have testing was coming up.
Be one of the immunologist on staff to validate alcat test,
what the fuck.
Changes in character size composition of the lymphocytes in there for terminating service immune reactivity to.
[12:00] He wasn't able to.
Areas of research for us is actually validating ways that we do do some testing which I think is something that everyone who is practicing in this base needs to be aware of is.
You know how reliable how accurate how reproduce or the test we do.
And what can i answer the case so i'm personally not a huge fan at all can i know that there are lots of people out there it use it and they do use it successfully and is a very common story.
[12:48] Choose your and what you just mentioned that people respond positively initially read foods that are mentions.
[13:01] Initial symptoms symptom relief will not propagate for very long periods of time or maybe I think more importantly.
In the question is why.
I think that goes.
When you look at I think how inflammation is centered in the small intestine in the setting of intestinal permeability you know that the propagation of inflammation and potentially antibodies to some of those
I think that antibody testing gives you much more important clinical information.
And you probably want to look at more than just IGG a lot of people are looking at.
Yeah I think this is a great discussion here. I really appreciate you bringing the value here because as a chiropractor I primarily work with musculoskeletal cases.
That gives us a level of trust in the foundation to move forward into these new avenues that.
[14:18] Chiropractors actually have a great access to especially when a lot of.
Gives us a great Segway into.
Give us an understanding of this selective for me ability because.
[15:00] The intestinal epithelium to let something through right or is that really not been proven yet or is it always a bad thing to have permeability.
For the paracellular space so they're they're basically opening a gate.
Or things to enter directly into the bloodstream and therefore into the game system there's absolutely a physiologic function.
Dysbiosis done in balance of bacteria there many chemicals alcohol common medications like Advil common pesticides like Roundup.
[16:09] Set up.
[16:19] Some cases actually tight junctions can be fixed in the open position so your stock.
Consistent opening of the tight junctions and you can imagine where if there's a function normally there opening and closing in a very short period of time if they're stuck open
your new system is empty flooded with crowns proteins and so is it when we learn why is
on the end of illegal surface we open our page options.
And you're mean system is basically being flooded with a bunch of.
[17:13] Do we know you mentioned those environmental stressors you meant,
question Kyle very great question the only two things that have been proven in the literature to actually resulted in upregulation of Zombieland are
gluten peptides and dysbiosis and I think part of dysbiosis
you have to start talking about bacterial toxins whether they're LPS or something I didn't talk about the lecture another very important bacterial toxin is bacterial cycle equal to spending dachshund.
[17:54] Which is part of a very common infectious agents that cause acute GI distress but.
Primarily alterations of,
intestinal permeability via other methods of testing not actually looking at zonulin release but when you
I think when you look at the mechanisms it's all going to pan out zonulin is such a master signaling molecule.
We have this up regulation of zonulin from our environment from our contacts whether it be dysbiosis.
So then we have the opening of the Junctions.
[19:06] Take it from there so the kids are open right.
You know basically your immune system is inside the Fortress it's job is to defend.
[19:30] Several lines of soldiers that are sitting just just past the gate waiting for these enemies and their job is to.
Right so this first line of Defenders is our innate immune system right are non-specific immune defense.
[20:02] Natural killer T cells these are all things that are sitting there waiting for this on Rush a CD on Rush happening.
They get upset and they just start releasing the bunch of pro-inflammatory cytokines are chemicals that are,
localized inflammatory response right
shortly thereafter going to get some redness and and not Implement inflammatory response is very similar to what's happening inside you've got on this happens right
now what happens if this.
[21:27] What you can think of is maybe the Navy Seals inside the Fortress.
We need help us deal with all this complexity of Invaders and those Navy Seals are adaptive immune system
autoinflammatory and autoimmune diseases even outside of the right so,
the Invaders are rushing through the Adaptive immune cells make their way.
You can just open it open the gate real quick take a peek at who's across the line.
Close the gate in your body inside Fortress is totally fine in this situation.
[22:54] Be enemies have made their way through and that second line of defense is decided okay you know we need to,
toupees here and that's where you can actually make antibodies against food particles because of that this regulation.
And then that's where a lot of the antibody testing would come into play.
[23:12] Is that right so you're basically testing when you're looking for antibodies
I know I'm a little bit passionate about this stuff so.
Need that whole localised inflammatory response to go away.
[23:56] Enemy that they were recruited to fight against for example let's use something different let's say the casing for example I have protein in milk or whey let's say Jason keeps on rushing and they're not going to go anywhere
M10 the entire environment or response.
[24:42] And then based on what you just outline.
Ideally than that everything should start to seal however sometimes.
To her stress levels due to all the other environmental factors i think sometimes that healing doesn't mr lee take.
Inflammatory bowel disease or Crohn's disease rheumatoid arthritis so we have we had this great new understanding.
A lot of these pathological disease processes that are now being spine with differ mechanisms.
And I feel like we're able to provide new tools and better treatments for these patients.
Absolutely yeah this was the remarkable breakthrough I think of dr. Fasano's work.
[25:47] Central feature for the development of autoimmune diseases and we're also finding many connections to.
As well we used to just say.
[26:16] Happened a black box know you have interviewed sorry yeah now i actually we're understanding that.
[27:03] They found a much higher amount of sanyo wind-up regulation patients with type one diabetes adults patients
and patients who don't have type 1 diabetes so something else is going on here and it's actually centered within the intestinal I think one of the Great Hopes here is first of all our understanding of the Adaptive physiology has grown
brick trade of time that I've been in practice I'm sure you have a much better perspective on this.
[28:12] Yeah then outline why that's better than the serum cuz I know that's part of your.
By using sugar molecules and testing the amount of them in urine and basically saying if there's more to this than that and you have some.
Issues with your ability and research white that's like completely clean.
Right there are a lot of things that can change your intestinal absorption of a sugar molecule that have nothing to do with this zonulin pathway
or have nothing to do with your immune system so Johnny land became the focus.
Dysregulation of your immune system means potentially autoimmune disease if you're not.
[29:26] All the clinical research that was being done was being done using serum is on also this.
Signaling molecule is released into God and then.
Makes its way into the bloodstream and therefore you're drawing their blood and you can look at the amount of Zombieland.
It is significantly elevated to the point that you can make a conclusion that this regulation of xylem plays a role in this disease but.
[30:00] Sure you can draw the conclusion that type 1 diabetes is correlated with an increase in Zombieland based on serum levels
okay you look at the celiac disease patients when you look and see rims on eiland levels you get like 40% of patients with celiac disease that's an autoimmune disease that is centered in the gut almost all of those patients should have a positive.
Intestinal permeability test.
A Clinical Laboratory diagnostic tool and even doctors opponent bassano in their own research said
didn't stop many lives from using it as a new clinical diagnostic test which is worse terms anion levels became.
A tool in the functional integrative squirrel.
[31:09] You have the designers of these experiments saying you probably shouldn't use it but live saying whatever.
[31:27] It's a big molecule right we knew based on other research that looked at Big molecules that,
when you want to look at the stability of those big mouth.
No way that you can think about using testing for these things and reliable and that's because.
Arthropathy reactive arthritis Ankylosing Spondylitis so it's involved in a lot of very important diseases but for a long time we've known,
you should be looking for the antibodies to LPS because.
[32:37] The LPS that it was attacking is going to disappear.
[32:41] In a very short period top two to four minutes for help that's so.
[32:45] What if you looked at the actual.
Which indirectly tells you that LPS has been present at consistent levels or at least the last four to six.
[33:26] And what is available as a Laboratory test and we said let's compare those two antibodies,
excluding Clawdeen with your other proteins in the tight junctions and we looked at something called Leo February acidic protein which is.
[33:44] Becoming a very big part of the vascular permeability discussion that is the new.
[33:49] Hear a thing about especially when you look is it levels vs antibiotics on your levels the antibodies were elevated much more
33% of the patients with celiac disease in our study had serum Zombieland elevations 67% double the amount had antibody elevation so when you talking about a clinical tool
this one looks based on the data to be much more reliable reproducible stable over time
get those numbers back in the NBA publish those results absolutely
any sort of connection to the vagus nerve are parasympathetic nervous system.
[35:16] We're talking about tight junctions but I'm going to briefly wrap this up so.
[35:22] How to take functions are not the only important structure in that's case or repair cellular gap in between yep feel yourself there's also another thing how do you your instruction.
Filial cells to sit next to each other and work happily.
There's a set of bacterial toxins called satelital distending toxins which actually directly attack.
And this is work from dr. Pimentel at Cedar-Sinai.
[36:03] Body will form a antibody to it.
Is protein in your ad here instruction and also cross-react with your enteric nervous system,
the appearance Junctions throughout your entire intestinal system so this is your method of
stop dating a migrating Motor complex which is signal through your vagus nerve tear and tear nervous system.
You are breaking apart the connection network and then you are also directly attacking the nurse.
[37:01] Explosives and amount is of type junction are very often.
You got intestinal permeability and you also get direct damage to the interior of nervous system.
And we're finding out that a very large portion.
Actually have both of these.
[37:41] I'm is basically a large portion of the majority of patients with IBS subtype d.
Will have abnormalities related to antibodies attacking.
Enter nervous system and also significant.
Portion of those with constipation subtype so.
[38:05] You're finding out that damage the entire nervous system is autoimmune in nature which is really really really fast.
Wow that just blows my mind I've never heard that articulated that eloquently I've never even heard of that mechanism is that unlike a molecular mimicry
evolutionarily beneficial to those bacteria to develop toxins that mimics our own structures.
It's one thing for toxins to do their job in To Kill a cell
it's another for them to propagate in any response that.
And it just turns out to destroy your jerk nervous system.
[38:59] Would a good practical application be going back to all of our functional neurology vagus nerve exercises so are humming gargling or gag reflex.
Absolutely that's what you have to do and at the same time also focus on restoring oral or peripheral tolerance getting your body to stop producing.
Antibodies to is toxin in there for your own tissues.
So yes yes and I want people to know who we're listening that dr. elroy's Johnny is out there in California at regeneron Medical is that correct
that's correct yes yes so if you need a functional medicine testing doc use out there in california if you're locally here at the michigan family wellness community context,
of course we have the ability to do a lot of these tests as well cyrex is the.
[40:07] Basically what we're talking about what we're looking at with a lot of these antibody test I believe it's array 14 is that right.
Absolutely again briefly back as we conclude our talk for today I think we're still going here with our recording.
Basically can you take us through perhaps that right side of that voice Johnny V because I believe you guys have some great practical application,
some of this testing is not the most accessible for a lot of people.
Eight more got center the me having your of generation one so i'll talk to the basics of god centered wide and also a little bit of.
So basically got centered line as we call it a through think so.
[41:17] Obviously remove the things that are causing inflammation in your.
[41:34] Right and then you have to send positive signals to the immune system right you have to send.
To our friends the t regulatory cells which are responsible for whether we have this item one time before a i don't you think going on you have to send them happy sick so.
At large doses of vitamin a i like of the ten thousand units for shorter the time.
Large doses of Vitamin D based on your testing you know that's a pretty easy test again but anywhere from 5 to 10,000.
I'm a big fan of glutathione using very often you know.
[42:19] Master antioxidant obviously helping you cope with this and planned for it battle heels blood brain barrier is really pushes a pack detox so i use it very often.
Yeah the switch on and on and on the neuro degeneration world there dirt very very similar you add a few things that are different.
[43:08] Yeah so when treating patients with intestinal permeability I use serum bovine immunoglobulin e.
Everyday many times today it is expensive but I think it's really effective the literature is really showing.
I think that what we experience in clinical practice using this is panning out.
It's basically an oral version i big basically just taking holding european helping your immune system.
Clean out this biotic organisms healed.
You don't prove any issues you might have with biofilms I think it's a really powerful tool thanks so much.
Briefly what are you do you like to dose those immunoglobulins pretty high.
I've been dosing two and a half grams two times a day for anywhere from three to six months.
[44:07] So that's basically two scoops of the SBI protect from working like there and I do like I was using a prescription version.
Before this was available and it does have dextrose from GMO corn,
and if your location is balance the both of my not so low that so that's why i switched up or some like.
[44:54] Love and support all these is there practicing.
In this field a functional medicine we absolutely need you the community as a whole I think would not be where we are without.
DC's being so forward thinking about employing functional medicine and thinking about their entire patient.
I think for there you go is books wearing a battle I think is as a community or practitioners
what we feel is the correct way to look at the literature and treat patients and there is a lot of blowback from other sides.
So we're all part of the same team we all support each other.
My thought with that doctors that we can do far more together and then we could ever do a.
[46:01] Alright fam is what you think we'd love to get your feedback if you would like to email me about anything you've heard on this or any previous editions of the family wellness lifestyle podcast
Michigan Family wellness.com connect with us on social media at Michigan Family Wellness,
thanks for tuning in families have an awesome week and remember we can do far more together than we could ever do a part now that you've.
With dr walters chiropractic and nutrition office by going to michigan family well this.
[46:47] And click the newsletter sign-up button to join the informative and supportive community of Chiropractic Wellness.
You'll also receive as a gift from dr. Wallner a copy of Michigan Family Wellness Solutions.
Michigan family wellness wants to thank you for being part of today's podcast please subscribe to our podcast on itunes and give us a five star rating interview.