Interview Transcript With Bill Shaddle

Bill Shaddle

Dr. Kyle passionately serves the Michigan community at the Michigan Family Wellness clinic where he specializes in pregnancy, pediatrics, and family wellness care.

2018, Dr. Kyle Wallner
Michigan Family Wellness

Dr. Kyle passionately serves the Michigan community at the Michigan Family Wellness clinic where he specializes in pregnancy, pediatrics, and family wellness care.


[0:00] Music.

[1:06] Best way to have a healthy family is by living a family wellness lifestyle so if you're looking for a fishing affected and sustainable ways to elevate your health and the health of your family,
then i strongly recommend you make yourself comfortable,
because we have an amazing show for us today till shadow has expertise in taking complex nutritional topics and explaining them in clear easy to understand raise kids developed,
workshops and training programs on dozens of different health and nutritional topics,
in this coauthor of the acclaimed nutritional masters for series still is currently the senior director of strategic development formatted janet's,
where he uses his back ground and knowledge to help translate science into practical application for the healthcare practitioner alright families what welcome bill,
walking families my name is dr kyle were coming to you live from the michigan family wellness clinic today and our guest on the show today is bill shadow welcome to podcast bill it's so great to have you,
awe thank you some of the kroger bluetooth for this.

[2:08] Really and so bill as you know this is the michigan family wellness podcast hours ask our guests to questions first of all,
tell us a little bit of what family looks like for you.

[2:19] That's a good question i put it on two levels first family is my immediate family which is my wife and i are dark we don't have kids we treat our dog is if you are a family member which is.
What a pathetic i know that but what,
and in the second is a broader family which includes my friends and acquaintances is the functional medicine can,
yes that's very rough family and i do,
think of a very much a family i'm so glad you mentioned that um brought that up first of all thank you for sharing about your own family there but then that's how we got connected i heard you speak at a seminar gosh feels like over year ago now i'm just so thankful and grateful to have you on the,
i guess they thought yes talk about a microbe i'm before we get there tell us real quick what do you love about state of michigan,
what happened i live in california now and i am convinced that i really miss the midwestern several things about the west end and right now it's early april and you guys are just coming out of winter.
But i am gonna miss the seasonal changes i miss when spring starts to appear and miss when.

[3:27] You know the first snow fall turns everything beautiful pristine white i'm is that,
the summers and fall when the trees change in michigan absolutely represents the prettiest lot of time in michigan i just love.

[3:40] Awesome brilliant love it thanks so much again bill we can talk all day about california i was out in san francisco and.
That was beautiful sound but hey what's actually jumping and get a new army it's just conversation for today,
as we're talking about in our presure this can really go down several different rabbit holes but let's try to conceptualize this for people so,
what were talking about today families is the microbe i am so the diversification or perhaps lack there of the quality of the,
got microbes that are in our got we know from the literature that we have over a hundred trillion bacterial cells.
And as components of that there are the dogs if you will there's also the bad bugs.
And so now bill can you just gonna start off with perhaps maybe just like an overview of the functions now we're talking about digestive,
and you and all these different things that no transmitters the gut brain axis let's just start there.
Okay first of all the the the sixty thousand with you if you miss.
I've been in the field of functional medicine for a long time most of my adult career track and it wasn't all that long ago in my living agree that most gastroenterologist to the gi tract is as.
The repository of waste materials to lower gi talk about about as the storage area of waste materials and on its on his way out of the bottom.

[5:08] And the bacteria that live there were just there,
and dusty were neutral at worst their potential threats to our existence that url and that has been almost a hundred eighty degree turnaround since that time the past,
how can a fifteen years maybe twice as more and more people began to study the microbiology which is defined as the bacteria that live in us,
and on us and particularly the guest room transfer my mobile.
Which is the box to live in our digestive track in your justice is fresh battery when you think about it because there's many more of those bacterial cells in our cells in our body.
And in fact if you,
one of the one of the perspectives this gaining ground now is to consider the microbiology as a.

[6:02] Nine is just a colony of bacteria but actually got her of an industrial important part of our just,
i'll rather than looking at us as discreet from the marker bio scientists are beginning to think that the micro bio actually makes a part of our existence that we should be viewed as a composite of us,
and all of our host cells cells born with and then the bacteria,
and there own dna and if you look like that ninety nine percent of the dna that has an impact on our bodies and our justice more health,
ninety nine percent of from these bacteria so.
The the police is bacteria just are there and that they don't really matter one way or another it's is almost.

[6:53] And interestingly one of the first people to.
Draw attention to that was researcher at the university of illinois named abigail sell yours and in her.

[7:05] Her interests come from what was happening at the time she began looking at the switch is in the early nineties right around the first anthrax scare,
and that is what people are using antibiotics indiscriminately to control their fear of exposure to answer each will wait a minute because she was one of the sinuses right above us government,
two to report about this and she said no women because the battery that were killing off maybe not such a good idea,
me be thinking about what good things are that they do for us and then with the ability to do easy dna testing,
and you know mapping of a fecal material affect your that are in our got we're learning so much more about,
the sum what we we are never shop now f six thousand thirty were coming to the where's the battery are the import and probably without them we couldn't survive,
and i think those are great points i mean especially when you consider all the plethora of literature that comes out of you do a literature search on pot matter even google for example just,
even if you punch me got or intestine from your ability which is literature terminology there's just times ensure that comes up.
Yeah that you know where can talk about your here today so it's no one thing i like is again there is,
met a generous like that they promote is,
the clinical side of the street and go get pro biotic off the shelf your having some constipation or if your having diarrhea or if you feel like you have leaky gut syndrome or if you feel guilty then all those all those reasons are great.

[8:43] Reason why to consider you know supplementing with a high quality pro biotic but the main thing i like about,
what nigga jennings has as they out they always promote the genius train species they want a clinical with their recommendations can you tell us about why that matters and more about that,
yeah that's a good question what thank you probably the best metaphor think of this lol what's that you got up to,
lawn in your backyard and is dirt and for whatever reason is is there's nothing growing there,
so you think you know i don't like that it's brown i'd like it to be green so you go down to the local store the supply store feed store and buy heard she,
which is what a lot of different types of seeds and is back are you tossed back,
well what are you gonna get you gonna get everything you have you got some tall dresser get some flowers to get some short rest you can all kinds,
read it what you want instead there's a lawn that you can play croquet on,
that you need to be specific about what you so there and just like you mentioned before their sisters like hundred trillion different micro clusters probably,
thousands of different types of my students he strangers other than a man of you just a random.

[10:13] Pickles or whatever it none getting a pro biotic better it is beneficial probably,
although you don't know for certain but you probably will be getting beneficial bacteria because ultimately that's where they came from or right is from a guy right up but don't really know what is going to do for you,
nice we're literature is going and i think you touch very well that is that there's a eight like a subset of the bacteria.

[10:43] They are generally beneficial the things that you're gonna find in yoga gonna find them and butter milk and different sauerkraut and fermented foods can she things that were familiar with.
Or doctors but beyond that the the literature is showing that in order to get therapeutic benefit.

[11:03] Going for a specific purpose or condition right what be your mobile or c difficile infection mom,
i'm in america so shit diarrhea which is something she does number of other things you have to know the bacteria that you're giving because the therapeutic benefits.

[11:23] That you get out of it is dictated by the bacteria that some literature and while driving in the side of it starts now if you want to control a c diff infection,
for example,
yogurt may help in the states that it will turn your backyard green using alarm number for really want is a four k one you have very specific battery which is identified as being beneficial to protect you against,
now and you mentioned it got rained connection there's that you're the man identified overnight get commercially available for things like to persian,
anxiety autism spectrum disorder wrap obesity there's this is real estate just yesterday,
there's an article was published in the journal of american medical association pediatrics johna pediatrics which is about as conservative as you can get,
raise the question that there is a link on the seventh so mark clearly gets don't need to be lose it but there's a link between.
The metronome ipad while yes childhood obesity,
so the the better living in the mother's gi tract and in the birth canal influence on whether or not her baby.
Gets up with the city as it after it warms up bro so pass the.

[12:54] You know to to look at it from that perspective that's absolutely cheating because your girl like jumpy actors attention to the inter connectedness between micro bio and or water.

[13:05] Yeah that's really mean that thank you for mentioning that research job one thing i believe that i have talked about on the podcast your before and some of the you know wedding are there patients been seen is just how.
I believe there is a link established between the mother and the child in terms of the insulin and sounds of the hormones functions i would.
Yeah see how they could draw the relationship between micro around and sell of being.
Are any kind of diabetic context you know later on a post living things like the,
i wanna go back to what you said about the commercial availability and inside is an elected so salivary as you see on eights because that's actually great connection is my understanding i mean,
when you look at salivary salon will touch on some of those things in terms of we got an app ophelia sounds and how it is in a really silly,
get into the,
diversification of the goes well but salivary is was it commercially available years ago and then the sourcing without the ability to culture it is marshall availability was our compromise or something like that but now it's back as much at.
That's right we as you mentioned earlier i will work for managing it for number of years and about five years ago or four years ago we we brought to market a product that was the,
also very selective so was salivary fuses c one specific strain of bacteria that was shown to be beneficial in helping to control,
increase permit in the gi tract go back and talk about the ramifications of that unfortunately the.

[14:39] The second bash that we got from production didn't meet our criteria,
the first batch which gave us about six months apply was great but the second that didn't.
At first the mr vendor the person that the company that we were purchasing raw materials from went back and forth about why that might be but it became clear that it was a,
apparently problem is going from a small batch which was the first batch to a larger batch which was production,
the radio just a little car and we couldn't for,
are the plates are you a process would allow us to tomorrow because it wasn't cost of living and unfortunately it wasn't something like we just put a little more,
that happens all the time to be able but what we had this look on a hobart to be to claim them on top,
what beach we went back to the people who were manufactured forces seven when you can squires with three consecutive matches.
There are production level batches of the the large two year supply attaches me the label claim for stability overtime,
then we'll bring it back to the market,
smh taken about two years to be able to do that because it don't just grow overnight growing and we have to march them over time they maintain stability shows really functional stability and label.

[16:15] Red light with just watched it last.
Yeah that's a great point to the stability the ability if you weld two package this you know there's there's a little bit of manufacturing finance if you will because and i want to just drop this point,
real quick as well before we get talking more about salivary is down.

[16:39] There's a lot of different microbes out there as huge as you mention right not everyone of those microbes are we able to.
Culture if you will and put in a capsule or put in the powder is that right yeah that's absolutely right so when you surgeon literature for.
I mentioned the journal pediatrics journal amended little bit ago may say that this bacteria in one of the study is the cited there is associated with but,
particular bacteria may not be commercially available right right,
so i wanna draw a line brief chiropractor connection so i have a lot of people with their lower back pain obviously as a doctor of chiropractic every now and then it's not actually there's spine that's causing the lower back pain it's actually this roast a medical referral from a kidney stones of the,
the development of calcium oxide late stones right so one of the microorganisms that's been shown to decrease the deposition of you or the formation of those calcium stones is and see if i can say this,
right cuz all these names axel of actor form in jens not not sure if you are familiar with that one specifically but will not i'm not held est,
funny but to illustrate my point that's actually not a is an organism that you can culture in terms of from manufacturing perspective so then the clinical question becomes okay.
What can we do for my diet and lifestyle and supplemental for a way out of perspective to insure age that got.
To diversify and increase its volume so foreman gems if you well that's really really important point and i think it goes to something that we actually haven't touched on yet but.

[18:18] Or component to consider and probably a discussion for another time but it's just work all three by alex which is the food is bacteria eat.

[18:27] These your number just double fibers there and then we can i just buy what can be the justice by the bacteria that live in our got and we can you eat those foods that contain those fibers,
those those agents which are as a circle priviledge go to feed the friendly bacteria.
So even though we might not be able to make commercially available at your bacterium.

[18:53] We may be able to enhances pro with the right type of accident yep that's exactly the model that i've seen and heard and i think it's really good results clinically especially again from a functional medicine from,
why style nutritional medicine perspective you have all of these people who have taken several rounds of antibiotics and a really decrease,
there fortitude if you will of the micro bio and she so important to look at this and,
consider chronically wets actually talk about salivary specifically i'd like you to touch on how it helps in terms of feeling the tight junctions that in chestnut hill yourselves and then,
how's little bit more about bacteria since cuz i think not a lot of people have heard of that are understand what that it's,
what does the second part first bacteria sins are agents that some but not all bacteria produce,
what they are is chemicals these bacteria generate as part of their life cycle which either protect them.
Or support their ability to grow in a particular buyer men or stressed to grow other bacteria.
Which then allows the bacteria to grow so the part of that the battery is defense mechanism of you well as i said not all back your cruise director isms.
And in the fact that is a world term bacteria since implies.
There's lots of different things that are considered to be doctors job here is that.

[20:24] These bacteria work by specific mechanism and if we understand what those mechanism are.
And then using a better ability to monitor the progress of the treatment and also make sure that we are using the right bacteria for the right approach,
so if you were to you don't know how it works you just kinda saying well,
no cuz i could see you give to people that helps we don't really know why bread but one of the things in biochemistry one of the things in,
in pharmacology actually an in nutritionist try and figure out what is the mechanism by does vitamin c help connecting the know what exactly is the biochemical pathway the garlic fishing,
jump to control cholesterol of you can understand that then you could go and see how it works and that's where these pictures is coming and also very is you c c one eight has been shown specifically to produce bacteria since,
that hoe to control the spread of infectious agents of the body presumably through having an influence on the.
Add in in this particular instance the way that we know that is an animal study three different groups of animals were exposed to listeria.
I have an invasive infectious condition and the the.
The animals these were lab mice the boys that had no treatment they were the controls show the concentration of the story through their their app and the mice that had the you c one eight.

[21:59] As a screen goes in,
there's no there's no mystery infection also another git protected them against this invasion board and then there's a third group.
That was given the you c c one eight but have a better isn't knocked out of.
And to particular bacteria that they had they had mutated so it's not produce this particular bacterias,
i had one cuz weather training is to say alright is it the back commission that's giving the the protection or something else can you sue one okay,
what they found is that he's disturbing my sleep at that with a knockout mice for the after using,
god listeria infection that's reliable test to show the uc one one eight and specifically the bacterias in it,
where at least part of the mechanism to talk to controls your,
and then there was another study that was done this is a human cell lines in other words they would take a sample of human cells grow them in a test tube and then test for your post.
And this is the red double take a two xl which are traditionally used to test the function of custard total.
Actually found is that if you that the well let me tickets i drink your charger here for what a the tight junctions.
Which are the connection between cells in your your lore gi tract.

[23:36] Yes truly believed that the best description i read was by dr less of a sanyo hard reset when using the school he was taught that the change options were like tile.

[23:48] And the i'm sorry to solve one gi tract like tile and the options with the drop in the.

[23:55] So the purpose of that is to seal the joint in between these two sells these you're joining cells that line the gi tract,
the reason i support just because you don't want anything speaking pastor normal adjusted mechanisms.
Which allow facilitated sure channels of digested food because the bacteria that live there you wanna keep that out.
Rash appears it was believed that is tight junction were static which means that they they would for the what.
Connect me with just stay that way through that sell any of the ball down the night was a pathological condition which allowed potentially harmful agents to get into the bloodstream.
Well what's the sorrow and others on his team discovered is that an actual fact mr georges are not static.
They're dynamic is that the properties that make up does this interface.
There are proteins that are produced by the cell line this gi tract that those those parties protrude from the side of the cell and interlaced with their counterparts in the other cell,
and when the interlaced that makes a positive connection it's not just that the to celebrate together.
You can talk on the connection that holds together after.

[25:16] Well this proteins forest which means they shiner florescent light in the laboratory.

[25:24] I am in a in a test to show they took three different are for different cell phones types of pierogies they were florescent.

[25:33] And they show what they look like at normal and you can see the nice outline of the that sells where the procedure for suv leadership blowing.
It's there intact the old souls together nice.

[25:47] They supposed to sell to hydrogen peroxide which is a chemical that causes destruction destruction district,
okay we'll be grated the day then workday the word is all set and you could see that there's no tight junction city sells them or is the soul rebel fusion clear.

[26:07] But then they print treated them with you c c one eight and then gave hydrogen peroxide and again protected cells.
So now we have two different mechanism which which has been demonstrated to help protect the cells from degree,
one of them is the protection against accident stress but does the hydrogen peroxide does the word is true victor's daughter research,
that those two studies demonstrate.

[26:36] In my opinion all didn't explicitly say this in my humble opinion or my reading of literature i think that the mechanism is probably two different ways looking.

[26:47] Is it flat or process that happens a nigga.

[26:51] That causes these proteins to become the greatest or to become the production to correct to say that the production of these proteins become stressed.
And when that happens the project around kinda like your go pro or similar velcro all together but you pull them apart then.
The cells the big gap junction between salt or so on.

[27:18] These both of those two mechanisms inflammation i'm sorry be i didn't dropped side serial.
Mark diameter is the the the actual underlying trigger to,
please that's for that as well so that's kinda my take that's incredible i was there with the one study with hagin frank said i was not familiar with the other study with listeria stashes remarkable on,
you know this is why i want to talk about you c c one al salivary is because it really is quite unique and very specific i mean if you've looked at other no side of your pro biotic bottle or whatever you know a lot of its very repetitive between you know different companies are there for manufactures but you c c one eight salivary as its very specific and it has very research functions jeremy just remark on a few others specific to use you c one a but also just having a,
well balanced or by amp reducing anxiety by acting on specific receptors of the gut brain axis increasing the production and utilization of,
your rates fresh again we can really go down several different avenues here we don't have all the time to do that today in and also regulating commune system function and,
checking around our conversation your bill i always you know my dad always told me what can be measured can be controlled so,
i like to start with a baseline so one of the things that we're offering our patients here is a micro bio i'm still test for it so for the pay,
patients were willing to go there with a stool test will be have them do is actually take a sample of their still send it into a lab and as a complimentary no.

[28:57] Those microbe ions and look at their diversification or lack of diversification i've done my own test i need to my lack of the solas because i'm low on my cell so,
is that something is promoted in the functional medicine world is you knows testing stuff actually it's happy to this earlier when i mentioned that,
new technology were able to measure dna much much more rapidly and easily and inexpensively never was able to before you sleep,
previously to the technology that was originally developed during the human genome and then human mark mobile,
the only way to transfer gi bacteria was to do a stool evaluation which meant that you would like to still show and then see what up culture.

[29:45] What is the problem is that you re don't grow in together and it's rice bowl that meant that.
But you get a lot of false negatives because results come back and say well with your negative four ls off while i was it doesn't go to,
to really know what you're doing and only a few left were able to do that was very very likely that you'd get lost very few really.
I am able to measure them accurately,
well with the new technology now we can inexpensively we need to live people can inexpensively reliably measured the dna.
When i try to culture there measuring the dna and that can be done even on a cell stock my right so that allows much much.

[30:36] Easier inexpensive rapid weight setting what's going on g i track down the widest of this explosion of interest you have before you can do a google scholar search for micro bio,
i have never hit you get there in the tens of thousands right.
And fuck back to your initial question yes i think that's a really interesting in and would be a valuable test of course is not something that we know nothing about to say.
Will this bacteria is to low and therefore we need to take more of it not being a major,
like looking for instance a well its got oak trees maple ash got some trees i think there's not of maple trees over,
right you don't know are we don't have enough data yet.
About the human michael brown to be able to reliably draw the conclusion that this city bacteria.
Or that weather be friendly or unfriendly is too far to go just yet.
We're still we're still collecting dollar which i suspect is why this lab huge driving right is gathering as much information as i can to establish a bitch.

[31:52] That's exactly what they're doing ass signs again the whole purpose with this is just to elevate the profession to be able to serve more people with,
clinical knowledge and information which i thank you bill for providing for our listeners here today and we can do some much as chiropractors we can further that structural care,
with leicester nutritional medicine i've been there so much that we can learn from in terms of the microwave i'm back and help improve our functional hell so if your struggling with energy if your struggling with anxiety depression leaky gut loading digestion there's all these lifestyle app,
applications that benefited from taking a look at your micro bio,
and really figuring this out so that is available to us reson i couldn't agree more i have quicken site for of i'm such a nerd i love this finds absolutely thousand.
And i can tell from our conversation that you do as well from when i first met about.

[32:46] That's where as a kid growing up did you ever see yourself being so interested in the topic like this actor who played the track.
Did you find it to be best in this amazing.

[33:00] Schedule hey thanks so much bill i really appreciate your time today we may have to have you on the platform to discuss and what about,
free about ex or some other functional health topics oh thanks again really appreciated that the pleasure of thinking,
alright families what you think we've got to get your feedback if you would like to email me about anything you've heard on this or any previous edition of the family wellness lifestyle podcast,
you may do so by writing dr kyle at michigan family won't stop come and take full advantage of the family lifestyle audio library at michigan family once dot com and connect with us on social media.

[33:36] Music.

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[34:23] Music.